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Not Good
Posted by Jay at 11:50 am
I’ve read some pretty stern criticism of Norm Shepherd or, for instance, the view espoused by Don Garlington on Justification and Perseverance. As far as I can tell, there are those in the reformed camp who believe these men are proposing a faith + works view and thus denying the gospel.
A few comments and questions:
1) Regarding the new perspective on Paul: how does Romans 9:30-32 [+/-]Romans 9:30-32
[30]What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not
pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a
righteousness that is by faith; [31]but that Israel who
pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not
succeed in reaching that law. [32]Why? Because they did not
pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They
have stumbled over the stumbling stone, (ESV)
fit in? (What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the “stumbling stone.”) This passage seems to support an “old” view of Paul… i.e. that the Israelites were not simply following the law to maintain covenantal boundaries, but were seeking to establish their own merit through the law.
2) I recently wrestled with a particular sin, and found strength in that time of temptation by recalling that my God is the God Who Sees, and that sin is no longer my master, and that where sin remains the abiding master, well, it doesn’t look good from Don G.’s reading of Romans 2 [+/-]Romans 2
[2:1]Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of
you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you
condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very
same things. [2]We know that the judgment of God rightly
falls on those who practice such things. [3]Do you suppose,
O man--you who judge those who practice such things and yet
do them yourself--that you will escape the judgment of God?
[4]Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and
forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness
is meant to lead you to repentance? [5]But because of your
hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for
yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment
will be revealed.
[6]He will render to each one according to his works:
[7]to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory
and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;
[8]but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the
truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and
fury. [9]There will be tribulation and distress for every
human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the
Greek, [10]but glory and honor and peace for everyone who
does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. [11]For God
shows no partiality.
[12]For all who have sinned without the law will also
perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the
law will be judged by the law. [13]For it is not the
hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the
doers of the law who will be justified. [14]For when
Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the
law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though
they do not have the law. [15]They show that the work of
the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience
also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse
or even excuse them [16]on that day when, according to my
gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
[17]But if you call yourself a Jew and rely on the law
and boast in God [18]and know his will and approve what is
excellent, because you are instructed from the law; [19]and
if you are sure that you yourself are a guide to the blind,
a light to those who are in darkness, [20]an instructor of
the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the
embodiment of knowledge and truth-- [21]you then who teach
others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against
stealing, do you steal? [22]You who say that one must not
commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor
idols, do you rob temples? [23]You who boast in the law
dishonor God by breaking the law. [24]For, as it is
written, "The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles
because of you."
[25]For circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the
law, but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes
uncircumcision. [26]So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps
the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be
regarded as circumcision? [27]Then he who is physically
uncircumcised but keeps the law will condemn you who have
the written code and circumcision but break the law.
[28]For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is
circumcision outward and physical. [29]But a Jew is one
inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the
Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but
from God. (ESV)
. As it happens, I resisted the temptation in that particular case. But I then became worried, based on the harsh criticisms I’ve read of Shepherd and others. Was I now trying to earn my salvation? By allowing eschatological judgment to factor in to my ethic, had I just compromised the Gospel by making Justification ethical? I became surprisingly distressed, and ended up spending some time in prayer simply affirming my utter reliance on the righteousness of Christ. Were my means of finding strength against the temptation dishonoring to God? Was I to resist the temptation out of thankfulness only?
3) Shepherd is accused of making statements that are believed to be “soft” on justification by faith. He is said to have made justification ethical rather than forensic and all sorts of other horrible things. If Shepherd is so dangerous, what does the average Bible reader make of:
–Jesus: Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
–Paul: There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.
–James: You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
I’ve heard countless answers to these passages to harmonize them with forensic justification, and I’m not questioning the explanations. Rather, I hear accusation after accusation that, although Norm Shepherd claims to believe in this or that sound doctrine, he doesn’t mean it, because look at what else he says, and look at his overall tone. Well, Jesus, Paul, and James would fall to the same criticisms if one approached them determined to find error and ignore the fullness of what they said.
April 23rd, 2002 at 6:11 pm
I had thoughts similar to #3 in response that Shepherd will take away Christians’ assurance. If that were true, it would be a genuine pastoral concern. But the Bible is filled with things that have exactly the same effect. There seems to be a basic assumption never articulated: “If the Bible says X we know the Bible doesn’t really mean X because it also says Y. If Norman Shepherd says X he is a heretic, and any claim he makes to believe Y is just deception on his part.”
August 8th, 2004 at 8:58 pm
Regarding Mat 25 [+/-]Matthew 25
, Rom 2:9 [+/-]Romans 2:9
, & Jas 2:24 you write:
[25:1]"Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten
virgins who took their lamps and went to meet the
bridegroom. [2]Five of them were foolish, and five were
wise. [3]For when the foolish took their lamps, they took
no oil with them, [4]but the wise took flasks of oil with
their lamps. [5]As the bridegroom was delayed, they all
became drowsy and slept. [6]But at midnight there was a
cry, 'Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.'
[7]Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps.
[8]And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your
oil, for our lamps are going out.' [9]But the wise
answered, saying, 'Since there will not be enough for us
and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for
yourselves.' [10]And while they were going to buy, the
bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him
to the marriage feast, and the door was shut. [11]Afterward
the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, lord, open to
us.' [12]But he answered, 'Truly, I say to you, I do not
know you.' [13]Watch therefore, for you know neither the
day nor the hour.
[14]"For it will be like a man going on a journey, who
called his servants and entrusted to them his property.
[15]To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another
one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away.
[16]He who had received the five talents went at once and
traded with them, and he made five talents more. [17]So
also he who had the two talents made two talents more.
[18]But he who had received the one talent went and dug in
the ground and hid his master's money. [19]Now after a long
time the master of those servants came and settled accounts
with them. [20]And he who had received the five talents
came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, 'Master,
you delivered to me five talents; here I have made five
talents more.' [21]His master said to him, 'Well done, good
and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little;
I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your
master.' [22]And he also who had the two talents came
forward, saying, 'Master, you delivered to me two talents;
here I have made two talents more.' [23]His master said to
him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been
faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter
into the joy of your master.' [24]He also who had received
the one talent came forward, saying, 'Master, I knew you to
be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering
where you scattered no seed, [25]so I was afraid, and I
went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what
is yours.' [26]But his master answered him, 'You wicked and
slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not
sown and gather where I scattered no seed? [27]Then you
ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my
coming I should have received what was my own with
interest. [28]So take the talent from him and give it to
him who has the ten talents. [29]For to everyone who has
will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from
the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
[30]And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness.
In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
[31]"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the
angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
[32]Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he
will separate people one from another as a shepherd
separates the sheep from the goats. [33]And he will place
the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. [34]Then
the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are
blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you
from the foundation of the world. [35]For I was hungry and
you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I
was a stranger and you welcomed me, [36]I was naked and you
clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison
and you came to me.' [37]Then the righteous will answer
him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed
you, or thirsty and give you drink? [38]And when did we see
you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
[39]And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit
you?' [40]And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to
you, as you did it to one of the least of these my
brothers, you did it to me.'
[41]"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from
me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the
devil and his angels. [42]For I was hungry and you gave me
no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, [43]I was
a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did
not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit
me.' [44]Then they also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when
did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or
sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?' [45]Then
he will answer them, saying, 'Truly, I say to you, as you
did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do
it to me.' [46]And these will go away into eternal
punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (ESV)
[9]There will be tribulation and distress for every
human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the
Greek, (ESV)
“I’ve heard countless answers to these passages to harmonize them with forensic justification…”
I’m not Reformed, but I’ve worked hard to take a serious, honest look at Reformed explanations for passages like this (also Rom 2:6 [+/-]Romans 2:6
, Rev 20:12 [+/-]Revelation 20:12
, Phil 2:12, 1 [+/-]Philippians 2:12
Tim 5:8 [+/-]ERROR: No passage found for your query.
, John 5:29, 2 [+/-]John 5:29
Cor 5:10, 1 [+/-]ERROR: No passage found for your query.
Pet1:17).
[6]He will render to each one according to his works:
(ESV)
[12]And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before
the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was
opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged
by what was written in the books, according to what they
had done. (ESV)
[12]Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so
now, not only as in my presence but much more in my
absence, work out your own salvation with fear and
trembling, (ESV)
[29]and come out, those who have done good to the
resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the
resurrection of judgment. (ESV)
I know is might be off-topic, but could you share these explanations that you’ve heard and found reasonable? Thanks!